What if bismarck and tirpitz

The Kriegsmarine, no glory so far at that point in time. And with what seemed to be easy victory for Germany looming, how would the Kriegsmarine be viewed with zero contributions while the Luftwaffe, Wehrmacht got all the recognition?

And that sets the stage for the stupid sortie sending out Bismarck. But I will say she at least did some damage, unlike Yamato. But in the end, the British still said, "Checkmate" and took away Hitler's precious Battleship game piece.

Sign in to follow this Followers 5. You need to play a total of 20 battles to post in this section. Could Tirpitz have saved Bismarck? Recommended Posts. Report post 1. Posted March 30, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites.

Report post 2. Report post 3. The Bismarck went down the best way possible, one that cements her as a legend. Report post 4. Only ship that could have saved Bismark was Graf Zepplin Report post 5. Report post 6. Report post 7. Report post 8. Report post 9. Report post Well the Germans did sortie into France, ruled by the French and did quite well for themselves for a bit at least Comparing the French fleet to the Royal Navy plus the Allies operating in the Atlantic isn't exactly valid.

Posted March 30, edited. Beta Testers , In AlfaTesters. They were, however, together for a very short period in Gotenhafen. Bismarck as seen from Tirpitz. Posted March 31, Bismarck lost all of her turrets pretty quickly, which is what you'd expect while steaming around in circles at 11kts being pounded by 2 Battleships.

There was plenty of hull damage, there had been at least some flooding from earlier air-launched torpedoes so I can't see how more gunfire and Dorsetshire's heavier ship-launched torpedoes wouldn't make it worse.

Might the escape of Bismarck have reduced the likelihood of a ban on further Atlantic raids? Just some quick thoughts Qui invidet minor est - He who envies is the lesser man. The RN would still hunt down the supply ships, making further sorties more problematic.

The RN wouldn't be any worse off than it was. For Barbarossa would take up Hitler's attention for the rest of the year, repairs to Bismarck and the twins take the rest of that year. For the question of Tirpitz joining forces with Bismarck would concern the Admiralty, but by then the US is in the war so US battleships would be available.

For the Germans the problem would be shortage of oil. Either that prevents a German operation into the Atlantic or an operation does take place in which the German ships get caught by British radar and aircraft and being short ranged have to flee back to base, possibly with some of them being sunk.

Allied superiority at sea or at least on the surface of the sea is so supreme the German fleet would be no more effective than in WW1. Only the Arctic convoys would be threatened and possibly the battles of Barents Sea and the North Cape would happen on a larger scale, with the liklihood of bigger scale German defeats. Unless the Germans had naval airpower and carriers I don't see any alternative outcome. And one carrier isn't enough - the Germans would need a carrier fleet.

Post by Djoser » Thu Nov 05, pm Well I think it's pretty clear that Hitler gave up on using the major surface fleet elements in any real way after the loss of the Bismarck, save perhaps to tie down elements of the Allied fleet. Had the Bismarck escaped, the boost to the morale of the Germans and particularly the German navy would have been massive. If the four big German ships could then have been assembled into a task force somehow and unleashed on the Atlantic it would have been hell to pay for the Allies.

The problem would have been to get the all together and intact so they could actually sortie together. Of course had the Bismarck escaped there might have been considerable incentive to make this happen. The bombers weren't particularly effective against major Axis surface fleet elements in the first years of the war , in the Western theatre--only when torpedoes were used was any real damage done.

Otherwise the damage done was more to the morale of aircrew and numbers of aircraft that kept trying to sink or cripple German ships, with high-altitude bombing in particular. Of course the RN would have done their best to bottle up the Bismarck with major fleet elements, and it would have largely succeeded no doubt, but there could have been chances for the Bismarck to slip out I would suspect.

Maintaining two or more battleships watching the Bismarck at all ties, not to mention trying to prevent the other three from joining with him, that would have placed a very nasty strain on the RN, and one I'm not sure they could have dealt with for an entire year running.

British battlecruisers were pretty well constructed for what was asked of them. There were problems with light construction, but as a weapons system they worked perfectly. The loss of the three battlecruisers at Jutland were contributed primarily to the poor handling techniques of the British gun crews, who emphasized rate of fire.

HMS Hood was not lost in any way, more or less similar. MrP Banned. It's a combination of the two. By the time the lesson that one needed heavier deck armour had been learnt from Jutland, Hood was too far advanced to be significantly altered.

She had armour added throughout her career, but because the RN was underfunded and overstretched never got the requisite refit. Problem was not with the designers of Hood - but with the ethos. They were working with an outmoded concept that side armour was most important. Sadly for them, in the era of plunging fire - they suffered for their antiquated design.

Re the WWI battlecruiser losses: The British kept the doors between the ammunition rooms and the guns open so they could reload quickly. Therefore, the explosion of the original shell set off a chain reaction, and blew up the magazine - which the German shells probably otherwise wouldn't have reached. Re Hood: IIRC current theory is that the Bismark's first salvo set off a fire in some deck ammo or the secondary armament, and explosions from this blew up the magazine and the ship.

Re battlecruisers' roles: Designed to have the reach on cruisers, and the speed to prevent them from threatening British commerce, without wasting tonnage on armour against enemy heavy guns, battlecruisers were a distinct success at the Falklands. When employed in the line of battle, they got their heinies kicked in.

German or Russian battlecruisers were envisaged as the fast wing of the battlefleet, so wouldn't have suffered from this problem. Also German battlecruisers forewent the heavier guns of their RN counterparts for more armour. Note the Germans only lost Lutzow at Jutland, which sank because of flooding due to horrendous damage. Importantly, none of the German battlecruisers went the way of their RN counterparts.

Operation Rheinubung was conducted in May Don't forget, in the OTL, the might of the RN only got Bismarck thanks to the real luckist shot of all time, or should I say the luckiest torpedo hit of all time. But the German fleet was severely mangled. Their ships had greater survivability, so they lost fewer ships outright.

However, a large proportion of the fleet was in dock for ages being repaired. I say this not to imply that the worse British design was better, but just to ensure the RN doesn't come out of it looking too bad. Not WW2 but they were involved in the battle of the atlantic. Therefore, despite of damaging the prestige of the Royal Navy and angering Mr.

Churchill who probably would have fired a few of his Admirals , from the operational point of view, Bismarck 's sortie would still be somewhat of a failure. Moreover, due to the damage received in the Denmark Strait and the following torpedo hits, the Bismarck would have had to enter dry dock for repairs. This would frustrate her prompt return to the Atlantic as the battleship could not be utilized again for at least the next two months. Assuming the RAF would not damage the Bismarck again at Brest, the ship could resume its operations in the autumn, and maybe try to join the Tirpitz sailing from Germany.

Otherwise, it is likely that Bismarck , together with Scharnhorst , Gneisenau and Prinz Eugen would retreat to Germany through the English Channel early in With all the battleships back at home, the Bismarck could be then sent to Norway and operate together with the Tirpitz against the Allied Arctic convoys in That would have tied down even more Allied warships in Scapa Flow, but that is another story and I won't go any further on that.

Bismarck escapes undamaged and gets lost in the Atlantic after sinking the Hood. They then reach the Atlantic and break contact with the pursuing British forces. The German ships could then concentrate on the British convoys. The use of a powerful ship such as the Bismarck for merchant raiding offered great promises of success indeed, as she could tie down the British battleship escorting a convoy therefore allowing the Prinz Eugen to attack with impunity.